See also
Richard William = 1882, Woolwich, London
See certificate
Mary Ann (Parsons)
b. 27/9/1857
See certificate
A photo of Richard hangs on
a wall in Manchester.
     b.about 1861 Plumstead
See note
1871:Cartridge maker
1881: General Labourer
1891: Metal Turner
1901: Laundress
d. 1897 Greenwich [40]
See cutting
d. 1938 (77)
See certificate
1901 census
Richard William Herbert Edmund Annie Louise Walter John
b. Plumstead 1883 b. Plumstead 1885 b. Plumstead 1887 b. Plumstead 1889
1901 census 1901 census 1901 census 1901 census
1901: Tailor 1901: Machine hand
See letter for possible marriage =Woolwich 1916, Ms Lockwood =Woolwich 1909, John Williams
See note
= 1915 Edith Harriet (Willsher)
d. Islington 1925/6(41)

Harry Baker Brind
= b. 02/04/1903
1911 census
Carl Brind (Facebook September 2011) I think I may have found something. Just seeing if I could find a birth ref for this mystery Harry Brind (b1903) who has suddenly appeared on my 1911 census. Ive just checked the BMD and born in the correct year in Woolwich is Henry Baker Brind. (See certificate) Could Harry be a nickname for Harry? Also the middle name of Baker could suggest that Baker is the father's name. Searched for a marriage between a Baker and Brind but nothings coming up. Looked for marriages for an Annie Brind and there's these possibles..
BOWERS Albert Edward Woolwich 1d 1245
WILLIAMS John Woolwich 1d 1245. Weirdly they both have the same ref no.
Marriages Sep 1916
Stevenson Frank Brind Woolwich 1d 2213
Marriages Dec 1921 Steers Henry G Brind Woolwich 1d 2416
From: Carl Brind Date: 24 September 2011 13:36:27 GMT+01:00
To: Jonathan Brind
Subject: Henry Baker Brind
Reply-To: Carl Brind

Hiya, Just at Essex records office. I'm expecting Henry Baker Brinds birth certificate in the next few days.

I've found Henry Baker Brind was born 2nd April and died in July-Aug-Sept 1970 in Woolwich

I've also found two marriages for a Henry B Brind (both in Woolwich)
O-N-D 1920 to a Dorothy Sharpe (this would make him 17) and
O-N-D 1945 to an Ann E Barry (this would make him 42...possible 2nd marriage?)
From: Carl Brind
Date: 24 September 2011 15:25:35 GMT+01:00
To: Jonathan Brind
Subject: Re: Henry Baker Brind


It looks like Henry Baker Brind had a daughter with his first wife......
March 1921 - Doris M Brind (mother's maiden name Sharpe) - Woolwich

I've gone through marriages for a Doris Brind but only found two (both Doris M Brinds)....
Dartford 1942 to a Mr Hodge
Liverpool 1948 to Charles E J Brind
From: Carl Brind
Date: 1 October 2011 17:01:35 GMT+01:00
To: Jonathan Brind
Subject: Re: Henry Baker Brind Certificate
Reply-To: Carl Brind

Hi Jonathan,

I was back over Essex Records Office today. I noticed Mary Ann Brind on the census was showing as Laundress doing her own accounts. Do you think she could maybe have done her laundry thing from home? I did a bit of research on Henry Baker Brind. I found a marriage in 1920 to Dorothy May Louisa Sharpe (born 1903). There was a child born in 1921 to a Dorothy Brind (maiden name Sharpe) by the name of Doris M Brind. Henry and Dorothy married at the end of 1920, Doris was born March 1921. So this means that Dorothy was pregnant with Doris when they married (both were 17). I then found another marriage for a Henry B Brind in the Woolwich/Greenwich area but this time in 1946. I thought Dorothy May Brind may have died, for him to remarry. There were no death results. I then searched and found a marriage for a Dorothy M L Brind in the mid 1940s. It looks like Henry Baker Brind and Dorothy M L Brind must have divorced. Henry Baker Brind remarried in 1946 to an Ann E Barry. Im not sure if Barry was her maiden name or her 1st married name. Chat soon Carl :)
Address 1891-1901: 58 Elm Street, Plumstead, Kent

Address 1911: 112 Villas Road, Plumstead

Return to index  

From: Carl Brind
Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2006 1:06 AM
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Brind Family

Hi Ive just had a look at your site. Im also trying to research my family tree (BRIND), mainly what happened to Walter Brind. He is my gt grandfather. Very little was known about him apart from he was from Kent (Plumstead, Charlton area), he was a gunner at Shoeburyness in Essex and his fathers name was Richard. Just after my grandad was born in 1918 he walked out on the family and nothing else was heard of him. Ive tried contacting various people via places like genesreuntied, but very little if anything is known of Richard and Walter Brind. If you have any information that would be great. I look forward to hearing from you.


Carl Brind Photography

07958 150420
I'd be delighted to send you a cd containing loads of information which should help you a lot. Please send an address.

I can tell you that there was a Walter Griffiths Brind born in Plumstead in 1883 who, according to my information was a capstan steel machinist. Strangely Walter's brother Joseph Brind worked for the navy in Malta as a gunner.

However that Walter's father was called Walter, not Richard.

There was also a Walter John Brind born in Plumstead in 1889. I don't know what his father was called (you can find that out by getting a birth certificate) but it is likely to be Richard because Walter John's eldest brother was called Richard.

There is a possibility that Walter John's father was a Richard William Brind who died at the age of 40 in 1898. He married somebody in 1882, if he is your ancestor it was probably a laundress called Mary.

I find this all very interesting and I'd love to talk to you about it. Would you be interested in a Y line (paternal lline) DNA test? I have had mine done and I would love to compare your results with mine (and other Brind DNA results).

If I am right I can probably put you in touch with some living relatives. But you best have a look at my cd (which is free)

Would you share with me the names and dates you already have on your Brind tree, for example your grandfather? I would add this information to the cd.

There are a lot of Walter Brinds, probably because some of the famous and wealthy Brinds were called Walter. One of the ideas behind the DNA test would be to see if you are related to them.

Jonathan Brind

PS Sorry about the delay in replying but my email software decided your email was spam. I only happened to see it when I went through the spam folder!!!!!

From: Carl Brind
Date: Tue Oct 30, 2007 23:03:18 Europe/London
To: Jonathan Brind
Subject: A possible lead

I've just gone through my CD Rom of Brinds. I was looking for my gt-grandads siblings.....hoping to find them. Ive now managed to find out what happened to two of them (I think) but Ive lost one of them. It looks like Herbert Edmund died in Islington at the age of 41. It looks like Annie Louise married in 1909

I've gone through all the births, marriages and deaths in the UK. Ive found his oldest brothers (Richard William) date of birth but then when I looked in Woolwich/ Plumstead I found no records of him marrying OR dying. I then did a UK search and found only ONE Richard Brind who would have been of marrying age (or who was alive). He was born in 1883 but married in Portsmouth in 1906. If this is the same one he had a child Richard William E Brind in 1910 (possibly passing on the fathers name). Also Richard's brother was Edmund...could this be what the E stands for??? Did you say that their grandfather or gt-grandfather was from that area in the will? Also Walter John was enlisted in the army in Portsmouth. Ive found no death for Richard William though. If he was a military man could he have been killed or mia during the war??

Chat soon

November 2007. I went through the records for my gt-gt grandmother's birth certificate. I think on the CD Rom its marked down as 1861. I found these for this year......
Mary Ann Parson b 1861 Medway
Mary Ann Parson b 1861 Stourbridge
Mary Ann Parson b 1861 St Geroges Hanover Sq
Mary Ann Parson b 1861 Bethnal Green
Mary Ann Parson b 1861 Whitechapel
Mary Ann Parson b 1861 Wheatenhurst
Mary Ann Parson b 1861 Shaftsbury
Mary Ann Parson b 1861 Dudley
Mary Ann Parson b 1861 Newport, Monmouthshire

However I found this.......

Mary Ann Parson b 1859 Greenwich

I've ordered a lot of certificates tonight so once they are through I can let you know a bit more about the family. Carl
1871 census
See cutting mentioning Frederick Parsons
Woolwich Arsenal Main Gates late Victorian era.

1882 Marriage solemnized at ????????????? in the County of ????????????
No When Married Name and surname Age Condition Rank or Profssion Residence at the time of Marriage Father's name and surname Rank or Profession of Father
99 Aug 6th 1882 Richard William Brind Full Bachelor Baker Plumstead Richard William Brind Carpenter
Mary Ann Parsons Full Spinster   Plumstead Matthew Parsons Bricklayer
Married in the Parish Church according to the Rites and Ceremonies of the Established Church after Banns by me Jeffr Allister?
This Marriage was
solemnized between us
Richard William Brind
Mary Ann Parsons
    In the
Presence of us
Herbert Brind
Eleanor Brind x her mark

Certified copy of an entry of DEATH
Registration district Wantage 1938 DEATH in the Sub-district of ????? in the County of ?????
No When and where died Name and surname Sex Age Occupation Cause of death Signature, description and residence of informant When registered Signature of registrar
132 4th Jan 1938
29 Richmond Place
Mary Ann
Female 77 years Widow of Richard
William Brind
Arsenal Examiner (metal cases)
Myocardial Degeneration
Chronic Bronichitis
certified by B. Cowell M.R.C.S.
A Williams- Daughter
14 Balgowan Street, Plumstead
Fifth January
H E Turner
Interim Registrar

Carl Brind (Facebook September 2011): Just looked at Mary Ann Brind's death certificate and the informant is A. Williams (Daughter). Looked on the BMD and found Marriages Mar 1909
BRIND Annie Louise Woolwich 1d 1245
WILLIAMS John Woolwich 1d 1245

Once I get some money Ill try to get this marriage certificate ordered too.

See also this note about Annie Louise.

Certified copy of an entry of DEATH
Registration district Wantage 1898 DEATH in the Sub-district of Greenwich East in the County of ?????
No When and where died Name and surname Sex Age Occupation Cause of death Signature, description and residence of informant When registered Signature of registrar
3 28th December 1897
Seamans Hospital East
Richard William
Male 40 years Machinist
??? shed
Shock following injuries sustained by his being
accidentally fallen under the horses drawing
a tram car and been run over
Certificate received from ???? Wood
.. Deputy
coroner for London
inquest held 3rd Jan 1898
fourth January
S H Lewes

See another Brind killed by horses.

Registration district of ???? 1857 BIRTH in the sub-district of Woolwich Dockyard in the County of ????
No When and
where born
Name, if any Sex Name and surname
of father
Name, surname and
maiden surname of mother
Occupation of father Signature, description and
residence of informant
When registered Signature of registrar Name entered after
777 Twentyseventh September 1857
28 Rectory Grove
Richard William Boy Richard William Brind Eleanor
HM Dockyard
28 Rectory Grove, Woolwich
Sixth November
William Jackson

It's probably a coincidence but the driver of the tram that killed Richard Brind in 1898 was called John Selfe. He may have been a 52-year-old in 1901 who was living in Beresford Place? Woolwich but was born in Kingston, Surrey.

Some time between July and September 1929 Annie L Brind (by then Anne L Williams), daughter of the dead man, may have married Gerald T Self (Woolwich 1d 3042). Williams is quite a common name and we won't know until we get the wedding certificate. He was possibly Gerald Tasker Self, born 24 April 1900 (whose birth was registered in Woolwich (1d 1306) in April to June 1900). But it looks like Gerald Self was the grandson of Harry and Dorothea Self who were living at Durham Road, Plumstead in 1901. It is not clear who his parents were but Harry and Dorothea had two daughters living with them, Florence Mostyn and Beatrice Self. Harry was 64-years-old and was born in the Mile End. By trade he was a Map Engraver Litho, which sounds like highly sophisticated work. Could he have had a relative who was a tram driver?
See also this note about Annie Louise.

Woolwich Arsenal Main Gates late Victorian era.

Andy Brind: Does anybody recognise the name Richard William Brind? I've got a picture of him on my wall. He is my Grandad's grandad i think? My father is called Keith Walter Brind, and my Grandad was called Walter John Brind from Manchester.I think our name originates fron Portsmouth?
Richard William had a uniform with spurs on his boots.Some kind of weapon like a spear?

.When look at your picture i can see my grandad in you.You must be a distant relative? His name was Walter John Brind .Married to Lillian Brind nee Jackson.He worked at Gorton Tankin East Manchester. Facebook September 2011
Carl Brind: Hi Andy, Yes your gt-grandad was mentioned on my gt-grandads army records. By the sounds of it they were pretty close. Both brothers signed up for the army and went to Gosport. Gosport is near Portsmouth where Ive traced our line of the Brinds from (1700s). I need to go through their parish records to find when they moved to Portsmouth from Aldbourne. It looks like when the brothers returned to the UK your gt-grandad stayed in the Portsmouth area, while mine went to Essex. I went back to PLumstead last week (as its only a 45 mins drive for me) and all the houses have been pulled down and blocks of flats built on them. Most of the gravestones have been removed from the churches. As you can imagine Woolwich/Plumstead was heavily bombed during the wars as it was the main arsenal.

It would be great to see a photo of him. If you look at Clive Brinds photo of his gt-grandfather Harry Brind. He would have been your Richard Williams uncle. By the way, the name Richard Willaim Brind nearly every generation. My gt-grandads name was Walter John Brind, so your grandad must have been named after him. Still trying to find out what happened to mine. Facebook September 2011
Clive Brind : Andy as Carl says Richard William Brind if born Sept 1857 would have been my great grandfathers elder brother & I believe that in 1871 he was living at 10 Darwin St, Plumstead & then in 1881 at 13 Station Road Plumstead & a carpenter although I'm sure Jonathan or Carl may know more! Facebook September 2011

Registration district WOOLWICH 1903 BIRTH in the sub-district of East Plumstead in the County of London
No When and
where born
Name, if any Sex Name and surname
of father
Name, surname and
maiden surname of mother
Occupation of father Signature, description and
residence of informant
When registered Signature of registrar Name entered after
238 Second April 1903
58 Elm Street
Henry Baker Boy   Mary Ann
a laundress
  M A Brind
58 Elm Street
Fourteenth May
W J Vincent?

From: Carl Brind
Date: 28 September 2011 19:31:08 GMT+01:00
To: Jonathan Brind
Subject: Henry Baker Brind Certificate

Hi Jonathan,
As promised here is the birth certificate of Henry Baker Brind. I honestly thought it was going to be 60% the wrong person. It's interesting to see she is still a laundress and why she would have a child at such a late age. As she didn't marry the father and died alone I wonder if the birth was a case of an 'accidental pregnancy' or if the pregnancy was a result of an assault. I will now try to track down information on marriage and death of Henry and see if there's any possible children. It could be that there maybe a child still alive, and maybe know what happened to Walter John Brind (as this would be their uncle).